Interview with deported US woman by Garrett Kostin

A former Fulbright scholar who has studied human rights in Guatemala, Ghana, and Liberian refugee camps, Joy Agner originally came to Chiang Mai to research accessible tourism options in Thailand. However, after attending an event at The Best Friend Library, she saw an opportunity to pursue her interest in the peace movement in Burma. After becoming a member and reading several books from the library, Joy decided to do something in solidarity with those struggling for peace and democracy in Burma while traveling to Shan State, Burma.

After discreetly distributing Burmese and Shan-language pro-democracy music, postcards, stickers, and literature, Joy was arrested by the Tachilek police.  Following nine hours of questioning in the local police station, Joy was then detained for two days before being deported back to Thailand on 18 July 2011.

Question: Did you spread the materials on your own or with somebody else?

Joy: I spread the materials on my own. I was very careful about not involving any local people who could face great risks for distributing these materials.

Was it your idea to go and do this, or was it somebody else’s plan?

I wanted to travel to Burma, but I also wanted to do some activist work while I was there, something to support those who are struggling against the current system. I got advice and information from several people at The Best Friend. Well aware of potential risks and probable outcomes, I made the decision on my own.

What was behind your idea to bring pro-democracy materials into Burma?

The purpose of the materials was to send a message, to everyday people in Burma and to the government employees that work there, that there are many people outside of Burma who support the promotion of peace and the rights of all people in Burma.I do not expect any great changes to come from these items, but I believe there is a potential for small changes, and those eventually add up to something larger.

Maybe a Shan person living under the oppression of the government, but working or hoping for change, will find the music and will have a bit more strength to continue their struggle.Perhaps they are singing revolutionary songs to the karaoke at this moment.Maybe one of the officials who caught me doesn’t really believe in what his country is doing at all.There is a chance that when he listened to the music or the messages, he moved a little bit closer to believing change is possible in Burma, or at least that other people care about it as well.I will never know.

It is also possible that none of those things happened, and I was the only one who learned something from this experience.Even in that case, my personal experience creates a greater forum to talk with others about the situation in Burma.Everyday since my return I have had conversations about how to work for change in Burma.Many of those conversations were with people who were formerly unaware of the situation there, or who do activist work in other countries.

When I was working in Guatemala I spent so much time thinking about how to make change in situations of violence.It can seem impossible.I came to realize that the more we focus on the barriers, the deeper into despair and less effective we become.In the world of emergency medicine they call this “analysis paralysis.”Getting stuck trying to figure out what the best thing to do is, and all the while not doing anything!My challenge to myself and to others is to take thoughtful and responsible actions, however small, to support positive change.We may never see the effects of our actions, but we can at least live with the knowledge that we are doing whatever is in our power.

Where did you put the stickers, what sort of places, which towns?

I stayed in Tachilek because traveling to the larger city of Kengtung currently requires payment of 1,000 Baht per day for a government guide, as well as their accommodation and travel expenses.I was trying to minimize the money I spent which went directly to the government, and I didn’t want to be monitored by the guide, so I stayed in Tachilek.The drawback is that I was only able to see a small portion of Burma, which is a country of very kind people and beautiful landscapes, and I cannot return legally until the regime changes.

I put the materials in motorcycle baskets and in random places around town.I wanted it to be obvious that the placement was haphazard so that anyone caught with the material could easily and honestly deny culpability.

Did you see the reactions of any locals to the materials? Did you speak to anybody about your activities?

No. Once again, I didn’t want anyone to be involved unintentionally, so I did not speak to anyone about my activities.I do suggest that if any foreigners go back to do similar work in the future they let anyone who they expect to spend significant time with know about their activities, subtly, as soon as possible.That will allow them to duck out and avoid association if they want.

Why were you as a Westerner compelled to take political materials into Burma?

It is extremely difficult for Burmese people to bring in or obtainpro-peace and democracy information, or to do any kind of open political work.They face truly grave consequences, long detention in terrible conditions, torture, harassment and surveillance of their families, etc.

As a citizen of the United States, I have certain privileges that they don’t.The fact that I am treated as if my life has more valueexemplifies incredible injustice in itself.It is an uncomfortable fact that I can run away from; it is also a tool that can be used against violence.There are many organizations and individuals that use this tool in countries all over the world.In fact, tourists often use it unknowingly.

During armed conflict towns that that are visited by tourists often experience less violence.Why?Because the government wants its country to appear safe and peaceful to the outside world, otherwise they would lose valuable tourist dollars.Foreigners have more access to media sources, legal support, and emergency evacuation.The protection of westerners and what they see is the basis for international accompaniment organizations like Peace Brigades International, and it is the reason why foreign journalists often experience much greater protection than locals.

It is no secret that we have this protection.When people asked me if I was worried about being tortured or killed before I left, I said “no.”I understand there was a remote possibility for violence, and I was willing to take that chance.The much more likely scenario, which is exactly what happened, is that I was treated very courteously.A few days of inconvenience was worth it for me to do something, albeit very small, to promote peace in Burma.

Do you feel tourists/visitors have an obligation to do something about the situation in Burma?

At the very least I think that potential tourists have an obligation to learn about the current human rights situation in Burma.As they learn about it, they can make informed decisions about whether or not to go, where to spend their money if they do go, and maybe even what they can do to support peace in Burma while they are there.I realize that not everyone is an activist, and that is fine.And potential tourists should be aware that in many cases the government makes it impossible for you not to go their route or support them financially.For instance, in Tachilek visitors now can only stay at government-sanctioned guesthouses, and travel toKengtung requires a government-controlled guide.So, it isn’t just a matter of choosing another guesthouse; if you care about how your money affects others, you have to get creative about how to keep your dollars out of the regime’s pockets, or think about ways to offset any benefit the regime receives from you as a tourist.

Do you think your actions could have brought local contacts in danger?

This was my primary concern before my trip, during the trip, and when I got back!I was very aware of potential consequences for locals and I did everything I could to avoid their direct involvement.I believe I was successful in this.For activists, there is a benefit to being forced to stay at government places.The less involvement you have with people who aren’t “on the inside” and therefore protected to some degree, the fewer chances you have of implicating people who don’t want to be involved.My taxi driver was the only person questioned about my activities.I have been in contact with him, and he is not in any trouble.

What happened when you were arrested? What did the authorities tell you? Did you see a lawyer, or anyone from your embassy?

I was arrested on Saturday around 4:30pm, held at the police station and questioned until about 1:30 in the morning, and then escorted to my hotel room.Until 4:30pm on Monday I was guarded by at least one person, usually more, sometimes five or six people would be with me.They already had my passport, and they took my mobile phone as well.

I could go most places I wanted as long as they were with me, and the police even paid for my meals and hotel room.It was incredibly bizarre.The authorities I had contact with were very hospitable, and insisted that I was being treated as a “guest” in their country.A guest who couldn’t talk to anyone else or leave at will, that is.I never really felt afraid because from beginning to end I was very well respected.

My treatment reinforced my belief that most of the people who work for the police and military are not monsters.Although, some of them have been turned into monsters after following inhumane orders. I believe the majority are doing a despicable job in a despicable situation, but trying their best to be decent human beings in the meantime.Such is the case with militaries, guerilla groups, and even gang members in many parts of the world.Usually these positions provide protection from the very harms they commit against others.I am not condoning their involvement, simply saying that only a few very sick individuals actually enjoy hurting other people.The rest have to be trained and pushed into those situations.This is an important fact if we ever hope for reconciliation in a country like Burma.The head police officer actually asked tokeep my copy of ThichNhat Hahn’s book “Being Peace”, saying that he would like to read it.I wouldn’t be surprised if he has.

I did not see a lawyer or anyone from the U.S. Embassy while I was in Burma.The embassy in Rangoon was contacted by my friendswhile I was there.I talked with them after my release.I am unaware whether they were contacted by the Burmese officials or if they had a hand in my release.I got the impression that everyone in Tachilek wanted me to leave as soon as possible; they just had to follow orders from Mandalay to protect themselves.In any case, I am very appreciative for the U.S. Embassy in Rangoon.Even if they weren’t involved in my release, the fact that they were there to notify and help in case of emergency is very comforting and incredibly valuable.

Interview by Garrett Kostin